The Place

Records show that spectator numbers around the world have been dropping off for race meetings.
I come from an Engineering / Science background and business back ground, and I believe it is possible to reverse that trend , by not accepting what others see as an unmovable truth.
You just have to think differently.
What improvements, additions, new ideas would you introduce to promote Historic Motorcycle race meetings?
What are the silliest ideas you have?
Do you have extreme ideas
I have a few ideas, but I would like more before I present mine.
regards all

39 reads and no response.
I am pleading for ideas to share around the world.
I think we need to alter the way meetings are presented to spectators and I am sure racers may have some brilliant ias, please try them out.

jdaley wrote: ↑Sun Apr 12, 2020 12:55 am 39 reads and no response.
I am pleading for ideas to share around the world.
I think we need to alter the way meetings are presented to spectators and I am sure racers may have some brilliant ias, please try them out.

Quite apart from some other significant events happening around the world at the moment...
It's the unpleasant truth to those of us that are interested in internal combustion engine racing...the whole world is doing it's best to stamp out this type of engine - whether we can ever b e successful in turning the tide on that - I suspect is unlikely...
"New ideas to promote Historic Motorcycle race meetings ?"
Now there's a problem there (for me at least) - they are "Historic" race meetings - any attempt to "modernise" that type of meeting is unfortunately the reason I personally would lose interest - might attract other folks - but certainly not me - same as the modernisation & "festival" type promotion at the IOM TT - not interested...

True, Classic/Historic racing has been destroyed by the participants, people want to race something that vaguely looks like a classic /vintage bike but only in its last iteration,have been saying for years there are no genuine classics out there, every engine has been overbored/enlarged to limits that were never available in the day, likewise with ECU`s, ceramic clutches, belt drives, tyre and wheel sizes etc.I had a look at photo`s of the 500 cc singles at a meeting a while back, mostly Gold Stars, Manxes, every one had a disc brake, when I started racing in 1964 with Bemsee nobody had a disc brake,its the same with pre 65 trials there is not a genuine bike out there, also look at the new phenomenon the "Classic TT" what a bloody joke there ain`t a single genuine classic there,so basically unless someone has the guts to police these cheat bikes classic/historic racing is going nowhere

Sorry forgot to say the one of the worst offenders in the scene is the CRMC, they are more interested in production 600 Japanese rubbish than any other classes and if you think otherwise look at the Classic Motorcycle Racing site, which is nothing to do with the CRMC and see theopinions on there

I dont normally crack it when I ask for suggestions,BUT.
I am aware that the Holy Grail of Naysayers is to be the first to predict failure.
I happen to be aware of many reasons why Historic racing need an uplift.
Thats why I asked for new ideas, not old comments.
We need thinkers, people who may have a daggy idea that may just work.
Are there any out there?
If you want to tell me why it will not work, hold your comments please.

Well if you look at various sites there are loads of people who want to go to and enter "proper" classic/ historic racing however the organisations who run these events see "classic" racing the way they envisage it not what the enthusiast wants, so here`s an idea lets get it back to genuine racing, with genuine machines

We have a similar issue in Australia. Some years ago I suggested we identify "original' and "replica" bikes with an O or an R on them.
It was not adopted.

Hi
I'm not sure I really have any answers, and it seems I am the kiss of death for any race classes.
When i took up proddy racing in Aus around 2000, it was the death of the class. I switched to 250GP, as that class was dying as well.
In europe, I've raced all the "leper" classes, ones that no one wants anymore. 250GP, Supermono, Minitwin, pre injection sidecar, classic sidecar. So now I've got a modern F2, look out

As for the muddy waters between classics and replicas, to be fair there are not a lot of original chassis left, and of those that are, some are starting to look in pretty poor shape. A modern replica is a safer deal. I've seen a fez big failure on 40-50 yr old tube frames these last fez years, especially with a modern tuned engine inside.

France had some dark years recently because of this type of running, and what happened is a club (LMAP) set up a parallel series, with much more open rules. The idea was just to fill grids, get people out racing, as we saw there were a lot of outfits rotting in sheds, and others out doing demos and ride days, but no competition. Classes were simple, pre 73, up to 750cc and over
The system worked, for a few years, we had full grids, even reserve lists for most events. But in recent times the grids have dropped away, as some people start putting big money into their kit, and the difference between the fast and the rest becomes huge, many feel left out.
The last 2 years we have tried to tweek the format, to make classes more competitive, without discouraging entries. Things like regrouping narrow wheel 15 & 16" 1000s with the 750s and now trying to define tuning boundaries, so a stock 1000 and a tuned to death 1090 are not together. But at the same time we wanted to avoid the Aussie system of having 5 categories on a grid of 15 bikes. It becomes "turn up and get a trophy" day.
To be honest, it's not possible. Money wins. But I guess it's what you race for. too many people want to win, yet at the end of the day we are not racing for sheep stations (Aussies will get that), they are 5€ trophies. I can have an awesome race fighting for 10th place and be happier than a pig in poop, but be ored as shit with a huge, lonely race for 2nd on superior equipment.
Personally, a few seasons back I stopped racing championships, now it's just fun. And fun is where you find it.

To be fair we discovered "Jehonville" in the very early 90`s and it was the way it used to be in England ordinary guys turning up on old BMW`s, Triumphs, BSA`s etc and there were only ever about 2/3 crews from England the craic and cameraderie was great the organisation done by willing volunteers so laid back informal but bloody good fun it was the same at Mettet, Chimay, Monthlerhy etc etc unfortunately it all got ruined when the Cheque Book racers got involved ( mainly from England) where the ethos is you have to have a £25k plus bike to compete in a 4 lap race at Mallory and get a plastic trophy. Unfortunately those that want to be a big fish in a small pool and have more money than talent now rule the scene so as you say just go out and race and have fun its a shame but a fact of life.

gr8 thoughts the pair of you. Thanks

petercaughlin wrote: ↑Tue Apr 14, 2020 10:22 pm Sorry forgot to say the one of the worst offenders in the scene is the CRMC, they are more interested in production 600 Japanese rubbish than any other classes and if you think otherwise look at the Classic Motorcycle Racing site, which is nothing to do with the CRMC and see theopinions on there

As a racer of one of the 600 rubbish production bikes with the CRMC I feel the right to reply. Whether or not they are 'classics' is a debatable point. However, they fill the grid and bring in vital revenue. Without full grids subsidising the rest, there is no racing. The cost of buying and running a 'proper classic' is beyond all but the wealthy. I race for enjoyment and, after nearly 38 years on sidecars I took the plunge to race the Post Classic Production solo. It's been great fun and relatively affordable. Economic reality means that clubs will have to fill grids to survive. Left to the 'purists', classic racing would have died out years ago. I guess the scooters also play a large part in subsidising the BHR meetings.
I have recently bought a classic BSA outfit which I'm hoping to race next season. It will be hopelessly uncompetitive against the Imps and BMWs but my hope is that I'll have a few dices with the other handful of old Brit twins. If not, I've wasted my money and I'll go back to where racing is fun. Pure 'classic' racing will never return, there are simply not enough bikes to make a meeting feasible. Other classes have to be included. Making people like me unwelcome will not improve things.

Have a look at what the HMV do in Holland. A good set of rules and parameters to work to and definitely NO replicas. The CRDT in Holland also run to a similar format but cater for later bikes/outfits and include Japanese. Best thing is they run on street circuits. HMV is 65 for solos and a bit later for chairs.

Thought HMV made Records........

Yes clearly as over the years rules have been bent and goalposts moved for all classes of sidecar racing Covid and Brexit have all added their nail Unfortunately fortune favours the £ and to get results thats what you need !

A good set of fair to all rules would be great sometimes seen in other forms of racing to make it how about 5K buys the winning outfit engine for a start !!

I've been a diseased for life sidecar enthusiast but after my last visit to Anglesey to the CRMC meeting last week I find I am cured very sadly the outfits will be up for sale next week

Its hard to watch the have nots trying bloody hard to race those that have even though it appeared the traction control wasn't working !

nothing changes does it

Is there a link to HMV in Holland please

classic racing has to move with the age of the competitors, people race what they liked when growing up most of the time, i have no conection to old BSA, triumph BMW. However i do have to early jap 600's. I also have conections to big aircooled jap engines in rear exit chassis, thats where i started from as a passenger. hence i like to watch these, seeing old brit twins and BMW's.. well no interest. As older generations fade away then there will be less people interested, hence need to move with the age of people who can race. Crmc side cars are all front exit ... before my time. so not interested in watching. Pre injection interesting though but still not where i started from. I race an LCR R1 got a couple of years left on this then will see i there is a suitable older class for me to wind down on. big aircooled in rear exit short