The Place

alan just seen you tube footage of you in 93 on that kwacker looked like you were flying

My mind is without a BIG Sponsor you can`t drive in the front row!

A few comments from an outsider:

- Steve I think you should change the title of the thread to "TT 2012" as there is no particular topic, its just like a food processor on overdrive

Motec:

Geoff K, just picking up about your concerns regarding the cost of Motec. I appreciate that the initial outlay for Motec is quite frightening and for some/most people it is Monopoly money however, sceptics should try and look at it from the other direction - if you have the ability to give an engine a mouthpiece that could tell you that it will be blow if you don't do something about it then to me a racer cannot afford to race without it. We as a team actually could not afford to run without the information that Motec provides. We don't have £1k here, £1k there (to replace a standard engine) or £2.5k+ here, £2.5k+ there to replace the tuned engines, so if Motec tells us that things aren't looking so clever then out the engine comes. So yes a figure starting at £2k (for a second hand system) makes you want to cry BUT on the flip side once you have it, on the financial side it will help to preserve your engines and on the performance side you can maximise the performance of what ever lump you have it plugged in to.

Tuned/standard engines:

- Firstly a racer should learn how to ride a slow bike fast. There are many racers out there that complain that they do not have the power of these highly tuned bikes etc etc but actually if you put the driver of the fast bike in the slower bike and vice versa there is a good possibility the so called "slower" bike may just beat the so called "faster" bike anyway. Sometimes it is better to work with what you have than blame what you don't

- Secondly, (and to me, most importantly) - with the greatest respect we can all argue the pros and cons racing standard engines versus tuned BUT, is this rule change going to be thoroughly policed? At the end of this season F2 racers will have a bank of one or more tuned engines ... some producing 125 bhp, some producing over 130 bhp, which will need to be put into storage (unless racing outside the British or TT). Unless this is regulated properly then it is a huge trust issue that EVERY single racer will be racing with a standard engine next year. To me this is the biggest issue, how many times do you see a race (or participate in a race) where your gut instinct is screaming at you that a particular bike isn't running what they should be but because you don't want to look a bad sport or the thought of paying the objection fee is off-putting you just walk away and leave it.

I really hope that the situation with standard engines is governed properly (how you do it I have absolutely no idea) but nothing will be less fair than a racer swapping his engine for a standard, only for the person next to them to be running a fully tuned missile.

When faced with a shortage of standard heads (and standard engines in general), that shiny tuned motor is going to look more tempting than ever

Short answer to policing Kelly is surely to have a portable Dyno with perhaps the first three places tested before returning to the paddock and perhaps another three picked at random. It is not rocket science and it is not comparatively expensive in terms of outlay. It is not leading edge technology either, it was used more than ten years ago in the Aprilia 250 series very successfully.

Bob B wrote:Short answer to policing Kelly is surely to have a portable Dyno with perhaps the first three places tested before returning to the paddock and perhaps another three picked at random. It is not rocket science and it is not comparatively expensive in terms of outlay. It is not leading edge technology either, it was used more than ten years ago in the Aprilia 250 series very successfully.

Thanks Bob (a question out of naivety) - do these mobile dynos exist for sidecars as well? (thinking of the width difference for a sidecar backwheel compared to that of a solo) ..... or are there mobile car dynos?

More importantly - do you see the regulating authorities using one?

I have no problem losing to somebody who's tuned engine is faster than our tuned engine, or is just a better bl--dy rider - but I do have a problem with losing to somebody who has cheated

Oh bu**er - here we go again...

flexford wrote:I have no problem losing to somebody who's tuned engine is faster than our tuned engine, or is just a better bl--dy rider - but I do have a problem with losing to somebody who has cheated

Nail on head methinks Kelly - this was always my main opposition to change in the F2 class - the fact that it was near impossible to "police" the class when it went to 4 cyl 600s (where the 350 engine could be checked very easily & with very little - or no cost)
Nobody wants to see anyone having the top end lifted on a 4 cyl 600 - it's costly in terms of time & money - but - until there is a proven way to verify what the engine is - there will always be suspicions when one or two people are going faster than everyone else - no matter how good they are...

Bob B wrote:Short answer to policing Kelly is surely to have a portable Dyno with perhaps the first three places tested before returning to the paddock and perhaps another three picked at random. It is not rocket science and it is not comparatively expensive in terms of outlay. It is not leading edge technology either, it was used more than ten years ago in the Aprilia 250 series very successfully.

I can see that being doable at some events - but I wonder if it's possible at many of the club meetings ? - last thing we need is any increase in costs.
I really don't know how these portable dyno's operate - would the owner charge the club to bring it to a meeting ? - can't imagine they would do it for free...

Perhaps time to ask around then Gordon

Don't think that roller width would be a problem as I cannot see one being manufactured just for solos. From what I remember it was a bit like a starter that the MotoGP boys now use but measured power output instead.

I remember a bloke who came to a few Trident Owners Club bashes (the main one cannot remember the name of it, old age setting in,) at Cadwell with a mobile rolling road. It was a very professional set up and seemed to do a brisk trade. this was about 1999 or 2000/1.

I think Brian Pedder had a dyno fitted in his trailer at one time im sure i saw it at snetterton

Hi Everyone,

Really interesting this about the regs. I did think though that there were seperate regs for the TT than the F2 British Championship and totally agree tht it should be a global or European regulation to bring in a standard format and a set of rules that covered ALL 'F2' type machines.

Maybe a class inside a class for tuned and standard machines. The standard engine and electronics side could be for starters in the class and the fully tuned to be ran along side, a bit like the Evo class in BSB. This way there will always be a place where people who are starting out can feel apart of the racing rather than intially thinking wow yeh I want to do this but look at the costs. If there was a split class it would also give them a bit of encouragement. Everyone knows there is no feeling like being 1st in class. Yep even though there is little chance to get on a podiun or win cash as they couldn't ever think about beating the tuned motors (or could they?) they will always be learning and the achievement if you look at the results and you are the first one home will surely encourage them rather than making think how far behind they are. Which could make them leave the sport totally.

I totally agree with Wally that people who have the cash will want to spend it, and why the heck not?

On the policing side of things why not do like the single series car rallying side of things where engines are sealed when scrutineered or engine checked. Then if you need to get work done and break the seal you just take it to a meeting where testing kit will be available and have it sealed again. I don't know anyone now who just has the one engine so you can already have your spare engine sealed while the other is fixed. This way you don't have to have the things stripped if you win as they already know its been checked. Not sure if this will work for you guys who like to take everything apart after every meeting, but it is a thought.

I don't agree with the electronics side of things nowadays, but progress is progress. If it is thought of as more an adition to the tool box rather than a piece of the devils work, then I guess it is a really good tool for any racer.

My only worry is its making things more and more exspensive for a starter in racing. I love this sport with all my heart and I hate it when the powers that be don't seem to listen to the majority of racers who are telling them of the troubles in our sport. If nothing is done, it is going to reduce grids to an all time low and that is moving us back to the way it was in the dark days, and that is something I had hoped we would never see again. F2 started because it was seen, no disrespect here, but as a cheaper class to compete in and was seen as the poor relative to the old F1 750 cc two stroke cash eating monsters, but it has grown into a very very popular class. But becaue it has grown so fast in a relatively short time, it will have issues. In todays times where money is going to become harder and harder to find, I really do believe that there has to be change and change for the better. Maybe the F2 Evo class maybe an idea to support that.

Sorry if this has all been said before I am new to all this.......

All the best everyone

Dave

Why does everyone talk about Motec when the subject of electronics is brought up. Motec is not the only EMU on the market. I use a DTA that you can puchase for approx £900 new.
You can sort out the fueling and ignition and log whatever you want such as oil pressure, oil temperature, water temperature, etc.
I run it on a CBR600RR and a GSXR1000, all I have to do is put in the relevant program. How much would it cost to buy the 2 Kit ignitions and then you would still have no logging.

Nice shot of Dave and young Benjamin Binns at Elvington yesterday here:

http://www.iomtt.com/Home/Forum/ShowPos ... tID=258175