CRMC Honda Capacity Limit GOING GOING Almost GONE

[lang]

John, you say that a TZ750 is expensive to run, how wrong you are. I have just completed a full engine rebuild for a customer, including new crankcases,and crankshafts, a pair of new cylinders with new pistons and rings, a new countershaft, 6 gearbox pinions and new clutch plates. Total price including all bearings, seals gaskets and labour was a very reasonable £19,475-00. This engine should now do another 300 miles before further expense. The customer only paid £12,000 for the engine, so for a total of £31,475 plus carburettors and ignition he as got a very nice engine. Surely you do not think this is expensive racing, do you?

[steve-e]

I laughed out loud. I admit it.

[666]

Keith, There are lots of us with not a lot of money, we make our own chassis,hubs, disc's,streamlinings. And I know a few of the front runners who make their own stuff. My old man always told me if you can't afford it learn how to make it.

[666]

The other thing is that regardless of what we all spend on our bikes or engine size is the finishing order will be the same. The passion involved is different for every team and it drives them to put more effort into their racing both on track and in the workshop.

[kew]

I'm afraid I can only look on classic racing as a nostalgia thing. Don't get me wrong, I've really enjoyed doing the Camathius cup this year and had some good races but if I wanted to spend a lot of money and be competitive I would do it on a modern bike because that is proper racing. If I didn't make a lot of my own parts for the bike I wouldn't be able to race but I'm a has been and I don't want to spend a tump of money to be a big fish in a small pond.

[smithy1]

Big fish ....Yes
Has been...No

[666]

[quote="kew"]I'm afraid I can only look on classic racing as a nostalgia thing. Don't get me wrong, I've really enjoyed doing the Camathius cup this year and had some good races but if I wanted to spend a lot of money and be competitive I would do it on a modern bike because that is proper racing. If I didn't make a lot of my own parts for the bike I wouldn't be able to race but I'm a has been and I don't want to spend a tump of money to be a big fish in a small pond.

Keith, This is what we are all doing,----- Nostalgia, but we still do the best we can,and try to win don't we? small pond maybe but growing. Racing is racing whatever the class or period, please explain modern bike because it's proper racing

[tonybsa2008]

Our TZ is undergoing an engine refresh now,including uprating to O ring crankcase seal.Crank rebuild for the pair,around £1000,everything new except flywheels. New set of 4 pistons approx £200,Mitaka.£450 for wisecos. Our cylinders had new liners last years,so are still good to go,£900 for the 4. We should see 800 miles out of the cranks,unless we cock up. Pistons will be inspected at 300 miles.Clucth plates mega cheap,cos we use R1s and dont pay TZ tax on them. I priced up new cases,last year,and at the then exchange rate,they were £4500,plus VAT and postage.These are brand new cases not new old stock.New OW31 barrels are avaiilable from Fondseca(should you want them)at £2400 an engine set(last time I looked).That should cover us for about 3 seasons(6/7 meetings a year).
How is that stacking up against the cost of building a BIG BMW?

[666]

Thats a bit of a bad comparison, I think you talking about a refresh which i think more expensive than the BMW. I am not sure of the cost of a ready to go BMW built from scratch as i don"t pay for that but I do know that the cost includes complete exhaust system, carbs,g/box,ignition + dyno time and set up and our engine builder is on hand at all of the meetings we do to deal with any probs we may encounter with a full compliment of spares (which is extremely rare )My contribution to our racing is the building and maintenance of the rolling chassis,tanks,streamlinings,oil cooler and feed pipes+ any mods.

[tonybsa2008]

How many racing miles would you expect to get out of the Bmw,between rebuilds?under normal circumstances?

[666]

500- 600 miles

[petercaughlin]

Regarding costs it would seem that if you want to do well in "Classic" racing it has to be a BMW or Imp, so presumably an MRE chassis around £13k doesn't come with tyres,BM or Imp engine around £9k, carbs, ignition exhaust ???, in the case of an Imp a gearbox something good £2500? plus whatever else is needed so got to be in the high £20k`s, presume if you want a spare engine extra cost as above,
Eddy Wrights BMW is currently on E Bay at £22,500 so with its impressive specs might have been nearly £30k? new

[paulsparkie]

I for one would love to see a class selected,standard engine Max limit? / standard ignition chassis type and regulated tyres then I think you will see some close and good racing and a reasonable budget.??

[666]

I for one would love to see a class selected,standard engine Max limit? / standard ignition chassis type and regulated tyres then I think you will see some close and good racing and a reasonable budget.??

Paul, you obviously want to create a new class and not replicate pre 1972,which is the class at the moment.We had a class change with the 750's a few years ago,the class was split, vehicles with manufacturers spec engine bore and stroke which is period 1 and period 2 is the same capacity but with bore and stroke alterations (which is us,shortstroke) and this season there was only two regulars with 2 others on the odd occasion which means all 750's fall into your class remit as far as the 750'go. period 3 are the up to 1300cc with the engines being used being taken ever closer to that limit but 1300 was the top capacity in period. so what is your suggestion for this format for s/cars,can you be more specific.what do you consider a standard engine/standard ignition. Chassis type in period there were not many builders,we used to make our own, but now we have more more professional builders and they do this to make a living so their prices will reflect this (I think their prices are very reasonable when your consider they are low volume products). What would you say concerning regulated tyres. My last question is would any of your suggestions temp you or friends to come and race a classic,or who are the people that are waiting in the wings to come and race classic if the price is right, please make yourself known.The end result will be the same whatever is done, the closeness of the racing i don't believe will change much as the bulk of the field is made up of period1. And for example if the class were made 750 for all you would still have the same teams doing the winning and disappearing into the distance as it was in the period in all classes, this also happens in the modern classes...!

[sidecarracing]

there we are, "replicate pre 1972, which is the class at the moment"...
...who provides the evidence of 1000cc (and more) Beemers in the period?...no one...because there never were any!
I think one will be hard pressed to find any BMW which had more than 750cc pre 31-12-1972 (that's the official cut off date as far as I know).