Problem is there's too many people in sidecar racing with a vested interest in a dwindling sport where as you are a fan with some good idea's...
Your idea needs some serious thought in my opinion to try and get some new blood involved. Not sure that SV650 is the answer as its too popular in other classes but then I'm just knit picking on your idea!!
For my bit I think there must be engines out there that aren't used in any particular class at the moment. I use the 750 in our short bike (legally in the F1 class) and got the idea because it was a cheap option (not a popular engine with any other class) so we could have some fun. I'm not saying that is the answer but I can see your logic in the idea.
We've got plenty of good engineering companies in the sport who could manufacture a class worth of chassis and make fibre glass kits to suit that wouldn't cost a fortune for people to get interested.
Dave, i dont think it's a new problem, but it seems to have become more of a problem lately. Not really sure why. I'm afraid i can see the sport slowly dwindling away for many many different reasons. One other thing, i know teams who spend more on clothing a year than i ever had to race on. Jealous?? Yeah
What I have seen here (Australia) and no one has touched on here, is that the bike manufacturers are a major supporter of most of the race series, yet have nothing to gain from supporting sidecars as we don't generally buy new bikes. The attitude is we are tolerated rather than welcomed.
It is much MUCH easier to go solo racing. You start by doing track days on your road bike. You convert your road bike to track bike (or buy another one). You think you are quite quick, so you decide to go racing.
There are hundreds of thousands of solo motorcyclists. There are a smidgeon of road riders with sidecars, and I am trying to find a way of saying that most road sidecar drivers are as far removed from racing as it is possible to be, without being age-ist, sex-ist or disability-ist!
So, many motorcyclists who watch roadracing, have never even seen sidecars in action. If you mention sidecars, they still have a Wallace and Gromit idea. But once they have seen it, many people do really enjoy the spectacle (even if - between you and me - often the race becomes a procession) they still like seeing the passengers moving about.
For thirty years, I would only go to spectate or marshall at race meetings with a sidecar class, but it never occurred to me that I could do it myself. I knew I could ride a sidecar. I had had a road one when my daughter Barbara was born in 1980, and then I had an enduro one when she was 16 because she fancied being an enduro/motocross passenger. But to invest £5000 minimum in buying a roadracing sidecar, when I am not mechanically mninded and didn't know whether I could drive the thing fast enough, or find a passenger who would suit me, is a big decision. I would not have done it, if I hadn't had the opportunity at Llandow to try driving, courtesy of Paul Lumley and the Pringles, and the expertise of PJ the experienced passenger coming out with me to give me encouragement and help.
The biggest barrier for me to overcome, is the mechanical and maintenance side. Time for cleaning and checking is difficult to make, as at my (advanced) age of 62, after a day's work, I am too knackered to go out in the garage. So this year, I have scheduled one or two days off work before and after each race meeting. Space is also a problem, as I need a garage of my own for the outfit, and I don't have one.
Cost? Well, actually I look on it as being cheaper than solo roadracing, as Kerry my passenger and I go halves on the entry fee and petrol, and some spares (by arrangement). Last September my daughter Lucie competed in an beginner level trail bike one day enduro, and the entry fee was £85. No facilities at the start area, except Portaloos, no showers for campers. One burger van, no indoor shelter. It rained, so everyone muddy.
Kerry and I have entered Oulton Park and it is £170, i.e. £85 each - I would say that is actually better value than Lucie's enduro! Whatever sport you choose to do, from cheap trials to roadracing, cost is determined by organisers' expenses, and either you can afford it or you can't - no good moaning about it!
The FSRA Pre-Injection Championship is great for us. At Croft yesterday, we were chatting to an ex-grass track driver who knows Rob Fisher, and will be looking for a Baker Thundercat to compete on (when he can afford it). I really hope that by chatting to people and being an unusual team who spectators notice, every now and then, we encourage people to think "that's what I'd like to try one day!"
Have you found the plans yet ?
it would be interesting to see a copy
No, I think my copies went West when we moved out of Mallory Park back in 2013. I have texted to ask Spencer if he still has a set, but he is in Chile at the moment fettling his kit for the World Gravity Games (I thought their gravity was the same as ours, but he says it's "Technical" and something to do with the inclination and road surface they are going to use - he's odd like that).
I'll pester him when he gets back. They are very simple actually and if I really had to I could probably recreate them fairly accurately - just need a bit of free time, which is at a premium during the racing season.
I suspect part of the answer may be simple mathematics. When I bought my first outfit lots of people were racing sidecars. That meant that there were always plenty of reasonably priced secondhand outfits for sale. Because the grids were large, having an outfit that wasn't fully competitive didn't matter so much because you always had somebody to race against further down the grid. In this way you could buy an outfit, have a go and see how you went, knowing that you could sell it if it wasn't for you...without huge expense. Also, because you were always finding somebody to have a dice with you tended to get better, make progress and enjoy it.
Nowadays, I suspect that the sheer cost puts people off in the first place and, ironically, the higher standard of outfits means there is a bigger gulf for a beginner to bridge.
Anybody thinking of taking up solo racing can buy a bike at a reasonable cost, race in a suitable class (Thundersport being a great example of an organisation that provides classes for all budgets) and without being frightened by the technical aspect of the sport.
Success breeds success and numbers multiply.
So how long have I had these voices in my head, I hear you ask?
realroadracer wrote:I suspect part of the answer may be simple mathematics. When I bought my first outfit lots of people were racing sidecars. That meant that there were always plenty of reasonably priced secondhand outfits for sale. Because the grids were large, having an outfit that wasn't fully competitive didn't matter so much because you always had somebody to race against further down the grid. In this way you could buy an outfit, have a go and see how you went, knowing that you could sell it if it wasn't for you...without huge expense. Also, because you were always finding somebody to have a dice with you tended to get better, make progress and enjoy it.
Nowadays, I suspect that the sheer cost puts people off in the first place and, ironically, the higher standard of outfits means there is a bigger gulf for a beginner to bridge.
Anybody thinking of taking up solo racing can buy a bike at a reasonable cost, race in a suitable class (Thundersport being a great example of an organisation that provides classes for all budgets) and without being frightened by the technical aspect of the sport.
Success breeds success and numbers multiply.
Big thanks to Dave for his honest and heartfelt comments on this theme, it has echoed my long held thoughts.
Geoff has gone some way to the problem, but I think its deeper than just cost and KatieMc gets it - if the problem was just cost, the BEARS series (surely the closest thing to the class you suggest Dave) under the VMCC would be stacked to overflow, but it isn't.
I think there are a combination of several factors, cost being just one of them.
We all know that once you actually start slidey racing its very hard to stop (even when you have!!).
The reason solo classes are bulging is the route in - track days, anyone can learn to ride a solo almost anywhere, go faster, get a C3 write off and turn it or their road bike into a track day machine, that is so easy as a taster its a no brainer - for a prospective slidey where is the route in?
No 'tasters' outside of a race meeting, where you need licence, outfit............not forgetting commitment, by this stage - how do you 'commit' to something you know nothing of?
It was easy for most of us here now - we either rode or had ridden a chair on the road, or knew someone already involved in the sport that could get us a taster of some sort - the point is we had an easy way in, nowadays the way in is anything but easy - even the ACU barely acknowledge that we are a bike sport class when you want to get a licence.
What we need (and I have been thinking about putting together, funnily enough Dave) is a 'slidey' version track day, but here the outfit (and it needs to be a 'detuned' range of all of what is available, CRMC, VMCC & BEARS, FEra, F2, F1) should be provided as part of the day (via renting for the day/session), that way you and your passenger can just turn up (with money, obviously!), get some instruction from a competent slidey and get a managed introduction, if its 'your thing' you can come back for more, try a different class of outfit even, as you get more 'into' it, until you are ready to 'commit'.
From a personal point of view, I feel the LCRs are killing slidey sport - waaayyy too many adjustments and cost for most drivers, if I go racing I want to do exactly that, not spend a season farting about with all the 'tweaks' just so I can try to keep up with everybody else - is that why so many races these days are boring processions (for me), remember, if there is no spectator engagement (good close racing) why would they want to try it out for themselves and the long outfits just don't 'do' it for me (or the Wife - an ex passenger BTW) , they just don't look exciting, whereas short outfits do and are.
On a further personal note the F2 route wants sorting out once and for all, someone make their mind up about engines, fuelling PLEASE, I remember Dennis Trollope many years ago forecasting the cost of tuned 4 stroke engines, what's wrong with a standard lump and ECU for heavens sake, who would commit to a sport where there is no long term plan and appears (at the surface) to be made up 'on the day'.
And for some teams, the punter standing at the edge of your roped off arena looking to try and engage with you, might just be interested enough to give it a go (or even sponsor a go!), so best not look at him as if he's something unpleasant stuck on your boot, eh?
[quote="Phil Davies"]Big thanks to Dave for his honest and heartfelt comments on this theme, it has echoed my long held thoughts.
Geoff has gone some way to the problem, but I think its deeper than just cost and KatieMc gets it - if the problem was just cost, the BEARS series (surely the closest thing to the class you suggest Dave) under the VMCC would be stacked to overflow, but it isn't.
What you don’t seem to realise is the BEARs class is about to start only the third season with double figures on the grid for our first race at Mallory Park this weekend. I predict that this class will gain even more momentum this season.
Dave’s idea is very valid and a great way to progress into mainstream sidecar racing.
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Worked all week, it's time to play gonna get a little bit sideways!!!!
"What you don’t seem to realise is the BEARs class is about to start only the third season with double figures on the grid for our first race at Mallory Park this weekend. I predict that this class will gain even more momentum this season."
Oh but I do Phil, BEARS is the best thing for slideys in years, a cheap (by comparison) and user friendly entry into slideys - they even slide as well, what's not to like. I seriously wish I could get the time to enter one, best fun you could possibly have with your clothes on.
Probably the only reason the class isn't bulging on entries (because it should be) is the lack of active promotion to a much wider (new participant) audience (and that is NOT a criticism of anyone involved) and the availability of no-licence required active taster sessions (for drivers) to get them hooked, as I commented.
